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Sticky:Dev blog: Introducing the new and improved Crimewatch

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 81 post(s)
Jarin Arenos Card Shark Industries 40	Posted - 2012.10.04 20:30:00 - [1] - Quote So far I've seen no commentary on the effect this will have on mission runners. I know that this playstyle is low on your list of priorities (especially highsec missions), but this is a huge functional nerf. As it stands currently, if you're in a mission, and the network between you and CCP craps its pants, you warp out within 60 seconds, saving your ship from the whims of fate. Post-change, your ship sits there like a lump and - if you're not heavy-tanked cap-stable - dies. So the new rule is "Cap Stable Overtank or GTFO"? No more blitzing missions in my AF unless I live next-door to CCP? This can't be the intention of this change...
Jarin Arenos Card Shark Industries 40	Posted - 2012.10.04 20:48:00 - [2] - Quote Abdiel Kavash wrote: Hmm... so if a ganker attempts but fails to gank a miner, the miner can no longer loot the ganker's wreck? (as in, he would get a global S flag) Search the devblog for the words "front loaded"
Jarin Arenos Card Shark Industries 40	Posted - 2012.10.04 20:54:00 - [3] - Quote Come on, somebody has to give a crap about the massive headache that is getting handed to mission runners with the NPC flag's introduction...
Jarin Arenos Card Shark Industries 42	Posted - 2012.10.04 21:00:00 - [4] - Quote Abdiel Kavash wrote: Jarin Arenos wrote: Come on, somebody has to give a crap about the massive headache that is getting handed to mission runners with the NPC flag's introduction... The only headache that is getting handed to you is if you were using logging off as a means of escape. CCP doesn't want you to do that anymore. So glad that you're blessed with an internet connection that never dies when you're in the middle of doing something. The rest of us aren't so lucky. 60 seconds was usually plenty to stop people from using it as an "oshit" escape button. 15 minutes is cruel and unusual.
Jarin Arenos Card Shark Industries 43	Posted - 2012.10.04 21:22:00 - [5] - Quote Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: Jarin Arenos wrote: Come on, somebody has to give a crap about the massive headache that is getting handed to mission runners with the NPC flag's introduction... I illustrated a scenario where with the new drone-killing AI that BS gunboats are trapped in mission sites. The vast majority of people that inhabit threads like this were gloating over the probability. Bottom line, this winter release is a further devastation of high sec income, and the vast majority of players in high sec don't read these forums and have no clue about the ISK steamroller bearing down on them. The only way anything will change is if the subs drop dramatically, and by then, it will be too late for high sec. This NPC timer plus the drone killing AI, plus the 20% across the board damage nerf to heavy missiles is just another nail in the coffin for high sec income. And the vast majority of people in these threads are gloating over griefer tears. I think the forums are just a massive pile of schadenfreude.
Jarin Arenos Card Shark Industries 43	Posted - 2012.10.04 21:26:00 - [6] - Quote Abdiel Kavash wrote: If 90% of people who voluntarily confine themselves in highsec quit, and 10% decide to also participate in other more profitable parts of the game, EVE will be better off. CCP doesn't chain you into being a "highsec player". You do it yourself. In fact, CCP is trying to encourage you to open your eyes and look for other things to do than grind NPCs 23/7. Because losing 75% of the game's playerbase will let it remain profitable and continue operating. Or was this your clever way of saying you hate the game and it would be "better off" dead?
Jarin Arenos Card Shark Industries 43	Posted - 2012.10.04 21:32:00 - [7] - Quote Quote: can i have your stuff when you leave You failed 3rd grade reading comprehension, didn't you? I never said I intended to quit over this. I never even said that people were likely to quit. I was calling Abdiel there an [insult redacted] for saying that the game would be better off if it lost 3/4 of its player base.
Jarin Arenos Card Shark Industries 43	Posted - 2012.10.04 21:36:00 - [8] - Quote Solstice Project wrote: Jarin Arenos wrote: Quote: can i have your stuff when you leave You failed 3rd grade reading comprehension, didn't you? I never said I intended to quit over this. I never even said that people were likely to quit. I was calling Abdiel there an [insult redacted] for saying that the game would be better off if it lost 3/4 of its player base. That's true, but the mission runners simply won't leave .......... My point is that those highsec players that you hate so much fund the continued development of this game. Look at the statistics on users-by-security some time. And even THAT doesn't tell the story, because a huge chunk of null is financed via PLEX from highsec characters.
Jarin Arenos Card Shark Industries 44	Posted - 2012.10.04 21:46:00 - [9] - Quote Terrorfrodo wrote: Epic changes But, wouldn't it be better to shorten the NPC aggro timer somewhat and in exchange make it renewable by player aggression? Make it so that when a player disconnects with NPC aggression he disappears after 5 Minutes, but only if he is not aggressed by players before those 5 minutes are up. People intentionally disconnecting when they are jumped would still die because 5 minutes is plenty of time to scan someone down and point the ship. But it would reduce the grief brought on by genuine disconnects... 15 mintes is a looong time, people will just randomly pass through and see your ship, get back with a scanner and kill it. And really, the 15 minute timer will only punish people with real disconnects. Everyone else will know that he will die when he logs off, so he will stay on and warp from safespot to safespot until his timer has expired, just like we do now when we have player aggression. This is more reasonable. It meas less fun runs in fast-but-fragile ships, but wouldn't spell complete doom for non-cap-stable-ubertanks.
Jarin Arenos Card Shark Industries 44	Posted - 2012.10.04 22:03:00 - [10] - Quote Nirnaeth Ornoediad wrote: Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: Well, the null sec zealots get to rejoice a little more as the path of the utter destruction of high sec just got a little shorter. Let us combine 2 features by separate dev's and see what happens in missions. My opposition to the AI changes are all over the forums, but this NPC timer is wonderful, just wonderful. The null sec zealots say "man up, fly a non-drone boat". OK, let's say I am in Worlds Collide and I am in a Vargur. I still need small drones because my BS guns can't track the frigs that are scramming me in the room. Now, the new AI states that the NPC's will go after objects of similar sigs, so that means the frigs will be going after small drones in a big big way. So once all the small drones are dead, my gunboat Vargur is in a really bad way. I can't warp out of the mission, and with the new 15 minute timer, my active-tanked Vargur is auto-dead if I log off to be able to get new drones. Only way the Vargur survives is if it can sit in the mission for 15 minutes tanking the site, then logging off, or waiting until downtime. But no, these two new "improvements" by separate dev's will not have wipe out high sec income at all. Just fly a missile Tengu...oh yeah.forgot, the mission Tengu is having is DPS reduced by 20% by a 3rd dev. In a MMO game, you are not entitled to solo access to every piece of content . If you can't figure out one ship to do Worlds Collide, do it with a buddy. Do a different mission. Do something. It's not like all of EVE need be defined by a single PVE mission in hi-sec. It's called an "example". There's tons of L4 missions with elite frigates.

Jarin Arenos Card Shark Industries 44	Posted - 2012.10.04 22:06:00 - [11] - Quote Look, I'm not saying that you can't make highsec missions more challenging or whatever. But like the 20% HML nerf + tracking damped missiles, this is too much at once. All we're asking is at least some sort of consideration from CCP in this process. A little communication and assurance that they've at least looked at the issue and this isn't just lousy oversight.
Jarin Arenos Card Shark Industries 44	Posted - 2012.10.04 22:35:00 - [12] - Quote Udonor wrote: Jarin Arenos wrote: Look, I'm not saying that you can't make highsec missions more challenging or whatever. But like the 20% HML nerf + tracking damped missiles, this is too much at once. All we're asking is at least some sort of consideration from CCP in this process. A little communication and assurance that they've at least looked at the issue and this isn't just lousy oversight. Why? If you are high sec, no risk player it should be impossible for you to earn enough ISK to PLEX your account every month. IF you are only weekend warrior, you shouldn't be able get all your equipment from a single PLEX purchase either. This fits well with the CCP goal is to sell more PLEX by lowering the ISK value of PLEX. Ultimately this means decent full-time PVP players will all be able to PLEX their accounts every month while less serious part-time or high sec players foot the bill. How it works: Initially by reducing mission income, more hi sec people will need to buy PLEX with RL cash rather than ISK. The reduced demand for PLEX on ISK market will lower the ISK value of PLEX...meaning those rich folk converting RL cash to ISK via PLEX will also need to buy more PLEX to reach ISK target goals. A new equilibrium price will eventually be established at lower level as low sec and null sec PVPers start buying more PLEX and stop paying RL cash. Okay first, I don't PLEX, I just pay my monthly fee and play the game. Second... that rambling mess is... probably a bit of a stretch. Seriously, man, with that avatar, I'd be careful about throwing around conspiracy theories, or you might have some nice DEA men dropping in.
Jarin Arenos Card Shark Industries 45	Posted - 2012.10.05 16:34:00 - [13] - Quote Solstice Project wrote: And you are one of those plenty people who ignore that this statistic is only a momentarily snapshot and also isn't about PLAYERS (aka users, as you say) but only looks at characters. You're also ignoring that plenty of these characters are nullsec alts or alts from PvPers to fund themselves. My fault, tbh, because i didn't distinguish between carebears and players who actually matter. I really don't understand this deep-seated hatred that people like you have for "carebears" in this game. What arrogance to say that you have the only right way to play the game. I don't claim that piracy/PvP/whatever is a bad way to play the game. EVE is about playing the way you want to. Why do you have to dictate that PvE players play the way you want them to?
Jarin Arenos Card Shark Industries 45	Posted - 2012.10.05 17:37:00 - [14] - Quote Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: Its not carebears themselves per se', its the nerfing of the sandbox that makes EVE great they continually call for that we hate. So you have it backwards, PVP players don't have issues with passive carebears doing their thing and dealing with EVE life as it comes; although I agree life in hisec shouldn't be as profitable as it is today as more incentive to move to lo and null....but I digress... Its actually the activist carebears who's lobbying for nerfdom is futzing with enforcing THEIR vision on PVP players that is fail... As I look at crimewatch changes that protect carebears from can/mission flippers now with global 'suspect' flagging and blob pwnage of flippers...it becomes more clear the road to nerfdom is being pursued by CCP, while pretending its still a 'sandbox'. i.e. They let you steal, but make it conceptually a non viable activity by the pwnage that will come your way if you do it; illusion, form over function....we are a sandbox, but not REALLY...welcome to WoW behind the looking glass... Just make theft impossible and be done with it, dont give tease me with an illusion and give me piracy blue balls never to be fulfilled; I can go to WoW for that.... They DID say that they're looking at making personal theft an LE flag, not a Suspect flag, which would fix most of your complaints, and is the path I hope they follow. Likewise, making neutral RR get Suspect is a questionable choice... how do you join a LE engagement, then? Make the logi fit civvy turrets and shoot at the hostiles before repping? I'd like to comment on your digression there, actually, as this is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of highsec players. For the vast majority of highseccers, the incentive doesn't matter. Making life difficult enough in highsec won't drive them to low/null, it will drive them to other games. Nothing I've seen mentioned by CCP has pushed much in this direction, though, so it's mostly a misunderstanding from low/null players, not the devs.
Jarin Arenos Card Shark Industries 45	Posted - 2012.10.05 22:34:00 - [15] - Quote Bantara wrote: Then you haven't been f'ing reading. It has come and gone already, thanks for reheating it. Your retort doesn't counter Nirnaeth's point that this is an MMO--do not complain if you can't do upper-level content (lvl 4 out of 5 possible) missions along. Get friends. (I for one will never say "get an alt".) Caught. I may have just been reading dev posts only, being short of time at work. <.< Would like to see some sort of blue comment on the matter, though, having been someone who has suffered from a regularly-unreliable connection to the EVE servers. Yeah, I'm getting a new ISP, but I'm still paranoid. Losing a ship because I'm stupid, or because someone successfully kills me within game mechanics is one thing, and a danger I accept implicitly by clicking Undock. But dying horribly because my internet is unreliable? No game I've ever played had that penalty. Hell, the closest thing I've seen was Ubisoft's always-on DRM, and that rightly raised holy hell from the gaming community.
Jarin Arenos Card Shark Industries 45	Posted - 2012.10.05 23:31:00 - [16] - Quote Rengerel en Distel wrote: Pretty sure any game where you're in combat and get disconnected, you're likely to die. Most games keep you where you are, and you either live or die. Eve actually warps you out of combat if you're not scrammed. Not sure why so many people are complaining about this, when it's how it is already. Sure, you sit in space for 15 min, so perhaps someone could scan you down, and suicide gank you, but is that really a major concern? Most online games have your character vanish after less than a minute. And that's those where you don't vanish immediately, which is fairly common. As for sitting in 15 minutes, the concern isn't other players, but the NPCs you were fighting in the first place. Unless you can sit and survive 15 minutes worth of enemy DPS (impossible unless you're running a good cap stable tank, and that's ASSUMING that your modules don't deactivate on logout, which I have yet to hear one way or the other), you're dead. No outside player interaction required at all. No fun player-involved mechanics, just random stupid rat death. THAT is what the problem is. I have no problem, zero, with staying in place under PvP interaction. If someone scans me down in a mission and attacks, I shouldn't be able to log off to avoid him. But NPC rats? Come on, now. There's no exploited mechanics here. If I'm logging off to avoid being killed, the rats are probably going to kill me within 60 seconds. Nevermind 15 minutes. The only thing this nerfs affects is people with poor/unreliable internet connections.
Jarin Arenos Card Shark Industries 46	Posted - 2012.10.10 15:59:00 - [17] - Quote CCP Masterplan wrote: If you are not warp-scrambled, your ship will always attempt to do a 1-million km emergency-warp if you disconnect (outside of a forcefield). It will then wait out any log-off timers at this position. Whilst here, you can be scanned down as normal. Having nothing but an NPC flag at the moment you log-off will keep you in space for a non-extendible 15 minutes. (Numbers subject to change) The emergency warp remaining in place pretty much clears up all my complaints to this point. Thanks for clarifying that that feature will remain. The few remaining edge-cases (scram frigates if the new AI has eaten your drones) can be addressed (or not) once testing on the new AI commences.
Jarin Arenos Card Shark Industries 46	Posted - 2012.10.11 07:47:00 - [18] - Quote Camera Drone wrote: Mizhir wrote: Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: Tippia always comes up with flippiant answers that have very little basis in reality. This 15 minute NPC timer means death for any ratter who has an internet outage. If I remember correctly ships will warp out to a "safe area" if you disconnect, unless you are already pointed. rats point, you know. especially sleepers Which makes it more important than ever to clear the scram NPCs ASAP. But it reduces the issue of deaths due to legit network issues from "all the damn time" to a much narrower set of edge cases.